By Douglas V. Gibbs
Once again the Shroud of Turin is in the news, after some Italian scientists claim it may be the real deal.
The Shroud of Turin is a fake, and one must only refer to the Bible to know this.
Luke 24:12: But Peter arose and ran to the tomb, and stooping down, he saw the linen cloths lying by themselves;
John 20:6-7: Then Simon Peter came, following him, and went into the tomb; and he saw the linen cloths lying there, and the handkerchief that had been around His head, not lying with the linen cloths but folded together and placed by itself.
Notice that in both instances the linens used to cover Jesus' body are discussed in the plural. In other words, there was no single shroud used to cover Jesus because it was more than one linen. In John, the verse goes so far as to indicate that the "handkerchief" used to cover Jesus' head was separate from the other linens. Yet, the Shroud of Turin is a single garment. The Shroud of Turin could not be authentic, for it is not consistent with the Gospels.
-- Political Pistachio Conservative News and Commentary
Scientists Say Turin Shroud Is Authentic Burial Robe Of Christ - Before It's News
In only about 800 words, you have confidently dismissed the Shroud. I, on the other hand, am not so confident. You refer to the biblical passages, in English, that mention the Shroud. I'm guessing you have not studied the original Greek words or consulted any biblical or Jewish experts to see if they think the Shroud is compatible with the texts. I'm guessing you have read little or none of the thousands of books and articles on the Shroud, which is one of the most intensely studied objects in human history. I'm guessing you don't find it significant that some of the best minds in the American space and nuclear programs have studied the Shroud and have more questions than answers.
ReplyDeleteI've never understood the logic that because the Gospels mention more than one cloth and the Shroud is only one cloth, the Shroud has to be a fake. If I lost a pair of shoes and later only found one of them, is it logical to say that the one shoe couldn't have been one of the original two? If the Shroud is authentic, I would have expected the various cloths to end up in different places.
I'm guessing you won't take any advice since you seem to believe that your interpretation of the biblical passages trumps every other piece of data, but I would advise that you do a little more homework before making such an absolute pronouncement.
I have studied Greek translations, and I have not just jumped to some conclusion. My argument is significant, but there is more to it than all that I wrote. If you want a 50 page summation, however, it is not going to happen. Interesting how, because you disagree with me, in your mind I must automatically be speaking from an ignorant point of view, or you assume my studies are limited. Let me ask you this: If God does not want us to worship icons instead of Him, why would He leave behind such a relic? I think that many of these items man has searched for are missing on purpose. God knew people would worship the artifact, and it would pull their eyes from Him. And I assure you, I have done my homework on this, and more, and my absolute pronouncement stands. Perhaps you should study the Word of God a little more before jumping onto something that draws our eyes to an object, rather than Him.
ReplyDeleteWorship icons? Man made icons, Yes, but this may not be 'manmade', what about the 'tablets' of the Ten commandments? Did people worship the tablets or the one who made them? Furthermore, who is worshipping the Shroud? No one, people are venerating the one whom it depicts. I must agree with anonymous. There may have been several cloths in the tomb that morning!. It makes perfect sense that there would be, as his blood would have been collected. Some articles may have been lost in time or destroyed.But to suggest scripture disproves the Shroud was one of them is ludicrous. Have you heard of the Sudarium of Oviedo? It is purported to be the napkin "that was about his head, found in a place by itself"! The Shroud has a 4 inch strip resewn along it's side, suggested to have been used to bind the Shroud to the body.
ReplyDeleteYes I think more research is warranted on your part before making comments such as you did.
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If you only write only about 800 words and make an absolute pronouncement without any qualifiers, I think I'm justified in assuming your studies are limited. You didn't address either of my points: isn't it significant that some of the best scientific minds in the 20th and 21st centuries do not know how the image got on that cloth? Does that prove the Shroud is authentic? No, but the longer the problem is not solved, the more likely the belief that the Shroud wrapped Jesus. (And by the way, there are plenty of biblical experts and Jewish experts who believe the Shroud is compatible with the Gospels.) And I STILL don't get the argument that the Gospels mention more than one cloth and the Shroud is a single cloth and thus can't be authentic.
ReplyDeleteYou asked me why God would leave behind a relic like the Shroud. I don't know--I can't presume to know what's in God's mind. But in the Book of Isaiah, he says, "My ways are not your ways, my thoughts are not your thoughts." Pretty good passage, I think, to keep us from claiming we know what he's thinking. But perhaps he left a relic like this for a skeptical age. Maybe there are many people out there who acknowledge that the mysteries of the Shroud have not been solved and that God may have left it behind to get our attention. And what about the people who moved from being an agnostic or an athesist to being a Christian in part because of the Shroud? Should we tell them to become an agnostic or an atheist again? I spent some years in a seminary, so I have studied the Word of God. I have also spent decades studying the Shroud and there's nothing, including a questionable C-14 dating test, that convinces me that the Shroud is a fake. The Shroud is not going to go away, no matter how many absolute pronouncements there are that it's a forgery just based on the Bible alone.
Anonymous, you wrote; "and I still don't get the argument that the Gospels mention more then one cloth and the Shroud is a single cloth and thus can't be authentic"
ReplyDeleteThe reason you can't understand this argument is because simply put; The argument is based on ILLOGICAL REASONING. A Logical mind is always confused by illogical reasoning, lol.
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